Hubris from Revelation: the Social Engineering of Ultimate Truths [Monday, Period 2]

[atreideslioness]

"Welcome to our last class of the semester," Ghanima said. "Today, I'd like to hear from you."

"We've covered another of religions in this class, looking at how and why they developed, and their basic belief structures. Now I'm going to ask you to think about what you've heard, and use your imaginations."

"I'd like you to picture yourself dropped into a hostile environment. You have no money, no allies, and the natives are quite hostile to outsiders. Luckily, you are exceedingly familiar with the planetary religion and it's resultant myths and legends."

"Out of all the various religions we've covered, which one would you find the easiest to use to your advantage in this situation? Or if you cannot picture yourself in such a situation, what religion that we've studied has intrigued you the most?"

[OCD up!]

Comments

Sign-In

[atreideslioness]

Godlike, one last time!

Re: Sign-In

[bitten_notshy]

Jack Priest

Re: Sign-In

[see-beyond.livejournal.com]

Jonas

Listen to the Lecture

[atreideslioness]

It's rather short today!

Re: Listen to the Lecture

[furnaceface]

Jono was well aware that it was happy discussion time, now, but he was bound and determined to keep his head down and sit this one out. It wasn't anything against the class or against the question, really, but he was a flame-faced telepath who happened to be descended from an individual who, throughout history, had been trying to violently impose himself upon the world as a god.

Keeping quiet was a step up from crawling under a table, and so Jono was going to stick with that.

Discussion One: Choices

[atreideslioness]

If you had to pick a religion to manipulate, which out of all the ones you've studied in class would you choose? Why? What strengths/weaknesses appeal to you? Is it the culture as a whole, or some aspect of the power-dynamic? Would you rather be a prophet or a messiah?

Or if you feel you cannot answer that question: which of the religions studied this semester has intrigued you the most? Why?


[OOC: Feel free to ping off each other and discuss all over the place!]

Re: Discussion One: Choices

[bitten_notshy]

"What I'm wondering is whether the most effective thing might be making up a religion of our own," Jack offered. "I could say blond hair is a sign of favor from the Gods, if I was on a dark-haired and gullible world, and that might be better than any real religion."

"But if that isn't an option, I'd implement polytheism in the Greek or Roman model. It seems to be the most natural to primitive peoples, and with so many Gods, one is bound to agree with whatever I want. And it allows a fitting place for oracles -- like, of course, myself, or my lackeys."

Re: Discussion One: Choices

[see-beyond.livejournal.com]

"Something simple," Jonas said after a moment's thought. "Perhaps the Abrahamic religion since it's fairly straightforward - as compared to other religions - but also allows for some differentiation of people. It's a monotheistic religion which means everyone would worship one exclusive god thus eliminating the need for which god is better and why."

Jonas paused and pursed his lips. "Of course, you could then run into the issue of people not wanting to worship that god and branching off to become their own religion. Still, finding out which god is supported by the majority and using that to your advantage might mean an easier way into the society since you'd have the support of the many."

Re: Discussion One: Choices

[trigons_child]

A sick feeling started to develop in Raven's stomach at the question (and not just from the champagne last night). She knew her father was very accustomed to manipulating the religions of worlds he conquered so that he could proclaim himself their new god.

"I would consider it wrong to manipulate another culture's religious beliefs for my own benefit," she said shakily.

Re: Discussion One: Choices

[momslilassassin]

Ben caught the emotions coming off of Raven and gave her a worried look. "You'd rather get roasted over a spit or something?"

Han had told the story about the Ewoks a lot.

Re: Discussion One: Choices

[cataclysmicluck.livejournal.com]

"I'm not sure how well I'd be able to manipulate it, but I'd probably choose Buddhism. It has enough in common with the Jedi way that I might be able to pass as a Buddhist if the situation called for it," Zayne said.

Re: Discussion One: Choices

[findingelena.livejournal.com]

"Buddhism," Elena said. "I could fake the meditation from what I've learned elsewhere, and they'd be less inclined to kill me on general principles."

Discussion Two: The Ethical Reaction

[atreideslioness]

If you had to use a religion to your advantage, would you feel guilty about it? Do you have any ethical or moral qualms about pretending to be someone you're not?

Conversely, what if a role is thrust upon you? If a people see you as a prophet, or believe you to be filling a foretold destiny, would you have any qualms about walking away if you didn't want to do it? Could you let an entire faith suffer out of pure selfishness?

Re: Discussion Two: The Ethical Reaction

[see-beyond.livejournal.com]

"Yes, I'd feel guilty," Jonas said, already feeling that for even thinking about it. "Being used, in any sort of way, isn't the most fun thing to feel. And when you're able to imagine how those who are being manipulated feel, it makes the situation worse."

Jonas could only imagine how he'd feel in the first circumstance but the second he knew from personal experience. "If the role is pushed upon you, at least you would have a choice to walk away. Yes, it would be a difficult choice but it would be your choice and you would be the one living with the consequences of your action, good or bad."

Re: Discussion Two: The Ethical Reaction

[likethegun]

"I would probably feel guilty," Sam said. "But I think it would depend on how I used the religion. If it was just to keep people from being hostile towards me long enough for me to find my way home...well, maybe I wouldn't feel that bad," Sam said, looking a little uncomfortable as he continued. "As for accepting a role, it would depend on the destiny. If the prophecy was for something bad, I'd like to think I'd be strong enough to walk away."

Re: Discussion Two: The Ethical Reaction

[weetuskenraider]

Tahiri looked pale and worn out, like she hadn't slept (or probably done much in the way of eating) very much for days; she also, if you looked closely enough, seemed disoriented. She was considering the question with the vague semblance of a crooked smile on her face, the phrase you are the path to peace running through her head in two languages.

"I suppose that depends on whether or not you think that faith hasn't already gone off-course," she said quietly.

Re: Discussion Two: The Ethical Reaction

[elephantgadget.livejournal.com]

"I've, well..." Helen hesitated. "I've used another's religion to my advantage to prevent myself and my friend from being killed. And I don't feel guilty about that at all. I didn't hurt anyone, I just helped us to escape. As for the other, well, I didn't walk away from my people. I couldn't. I fulfilled my destiny as it was foretold."

"But now, well... what does one do when they've fulfilled their destiny and their people don't want them any more?"

Re: Discussion Two: The Ethical Reaction

[findingelena.livejournal.com]

"That depends on why I chose the ruse," Elena said. "To save my own life, or someone else's, I wouldn't have much guilt there. For my own gain, I might."

She was going to leave out work-duties. Elena didn't bother with guilt for her work. It'd really clutter her day.

Talk to the TA(s)

[atreideslioness]

Should they be there!

Re: Talk to the TA(s)

[walks-two-paths.livejournal.com]

Savannah was indeed here and thinking hard about the subject matter.

Talk to Ghanima

[atreideslioness]

She's around, before & after class.

Re: Talk to Ghanima

[vanillajello]

Kate came in early to talk to Ghanima. Three guesses why.

By now, she was kind of considering not taking a Monday class next term.

"So, I missed class again, last week. But I found out later it was all Fandom's fault." Beat. "I'm still sorry, though."

OOC

[atreideslioness]

I would be fine with ending the world today.

Re: OOC

[decoder-rings.livejournal.com]

There's zombie fog in Virginia. I think the world IS going to end today. GOODBYE SWEET WORLD.

Re: OOC

[weetuskenraider]

Oh man, this class ties into the next canon catchup I'm doing so well it makes me :D :D :D.