carpe_demon: (Why is there pudding on the ceiling?)
carpe_demon ([personal profile] carpe_demon) wrote in [community profile] fandomhigh2009-09-16 12:23 am
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Adventures in Literature, Wednesday, Period Three [Class Three]

Drake was wearing oh-so-wizardy robes for class today, including a tall pointy hat. "Today we're going to look at the legend of King Arthur," he said. "So was Arthur a real person? Some think he was just a fictional hero of folklore. But the Historia Brittonum, or The History of the Britons, a 9th-century Latin historical compilation, and Annales Cambriae, or The Annals of Wales, Latin chronicles from the 10th century, both link Arthur, Romano-British leader who fought against the invading Anglo-Saxons sometime in the late 5th to early 6th century, to historical battles. But these documents were written centuries after Arthur's lifetime, and neither calls him King.

"Now, I happen to know the real story, because I know Arthur. Well, I know his current incarnation's mother's sister's ex-husband, so in some strange way, I'm his uncle on the demon side. He's just a toddler, though, so he's been forbidden to use Excalibur until he turns 18 or his mom will ground him."

Clearly, Drake had yet to meet the Arthur and Merlin in Fandom.

"Anyway, real or fictional aside, this is a literature class, so we're going to look at the legend. References to Arthur pop up in all sorts of medieval stories and poems, like the Welsh Mabinogion, but the story we all know and love was created by Geoffrey of Monmouth in his work Historia Regum Britanniae, or History of the Kings of Britain. This is where Merlin first appears, as adviser to King Uther Pendragon. Merlin was the son of a mortal woman and an incubus, from whom he inherited his power. He engineered the birth of Arthur by magically disguising Uther as his enemy, Gorlois, Duke of Cornwall, so that Uther could sleep with Gorlois's wife, Igraine. Not a shining moment for our Merlin there, though he believed he did what was necessary to ensure Britain got her king.

"After Uther died, Arthur became king. He carved out an empire by defeating the Picts and the Scots and conquering Ireland, Iceland, and the Orkney Islands. After a decade or so of peace, he got bored and decided to take over Norway, Denmark, and Gaul. While he was away fighting, his nephew Mordred seized the throne and Arthur's wife Guinevere, so Arthur had to hurry home to kick his ass. Unfortunately, Mordred managed to mortally wound Arthur, who was taken to the isle of Avalon and never seen again.

"Notice some things missing there? Like Lancelot and the Holy Grail? Those came later. The 12th Century French poet, Chrétien de Troyes, took a relatively obscure character and pumped up his role. See, his patroness was Marie of France, Countess of Champagne, daughter of Eleanor of Aquitaine. Noble ladies back then were big into romance and chivalry, so Chrétien whipped up a love triangle to entertain them. So enter Lance, studly knight, who carried on an affair with Guin and ultimately brought down Camelot. Ooops. Chrétien also added in the Grail quest, little realizing what Monty Python would do with it in several hundred years.

"Nowadays you can find dozens of different interpretations of the legend. The Mists of Avalon, for instance, uses the perspective of the female characters of the legend, such as Morgan Le Fay, Arthur's half-sister, who generally gets cast as a villain, seducing her brother and exposing Guinevere's affair with Lancelot. In this retelling, Morgaine is trying to protect England and the pagan way of life. Or there's the movie King Arthur, which does away with the magic, turns Arthur into a Roman knight, and leaves the audience wondering just when Clive Owen and Ioan Gruffudd will just give up and make out. Or Camelot 3000, which has Arthur and his knights reincarnated in the year 3000. Check them out, you're bound to find one that tickles your fancy."

Drake snapped his fingers and totally modded changed the students' clothing to medieval garb. "OK! Sookie, you're Queen Guinevere. Sam, you're Arthur, and Tony, you're Lancelot. The rest of you are Knights of the Round Table -- even the girls, we're equal opportunity platemail here -- or ladies of the court, if you prefer. The Queen's just been caught in a compromising position with Lancelot. Art, you love them both. Guin, you love them both. Lance, you love them both. But the laws of the land demand a punishment, and the King cannot appear weak. Lance and Guin, you get to defend yourselves, if you can. The rest of you can argue for or against execution, banishment, forgiveness, or whatever you can come up with. And Arthur, you'll have to decide what to do."


[Syllabus | Class Roster]

Re: Knights and Ladies! [AiL: Class Three]

[identity profile] heartflames.livejournal.com 2009-09-16 07:38 am (UTC)(link)
"Sadly, that's not how it was in England." Eleanor glanced at both Hayley and Karla. "Just as Prof...Drake," she amended, "stated, women had no rights in that day. Even a Queen. Sometimes most especially a queen." She paused for a moment, then continued, "Guinevere was chosen to be Arthur's bride, by men. She had no choice or say in the matter. In the eyes of the court and the people, she committed treason in the worst possible way... by bringing another man to the king's bed."

"Not that I agree with that," she added, "but unfortunately it is how things were." And still are, she thought.
thatsamilkshake: (fretty)

Re: Knights and Ladies! [AiL: Class Three]

[personal profile] thatsamilkshake 2009-09-16 08:45 am (UTC)(link)
See Francine. See Francine not say a goddamned word about bringing another man to the king's bed.

Admittedly it helped that she was still working up a nice head of steam over the idea that either of the parties she knew in this situation would act the way the stories said they had.
living_endless: ([neu] hair over eye)

Re: Knights and Ladies! [AiL: Class Three]

[personal profile] living_endless 2009-09-16 01:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Didi was a black lady, actually, with layers of skirts and her hair twisted up into a series of braids.

"Arthur's king," she offered. "Eleanor is right about how things were, but if he wanted to change and find a way to save all of their lives, he could have. You always get a choice."

... no family issues there, at all.
Edited 2009-09-16 13:39 (UTC)

Re: Knights and Ladies! [AiL: Class Three]

[identity profile] shyest-eyes.livejournal.com 2009-09-16 02:41 pm (UTC)(link)
"It depends on the political situation overall," Hinata offered quietly. "There's a lot of factors for why a person reacts the way th-they do. The King may have felt that in his Queen choosing another man to bed, that his authority was being undermined at a time he needed to be perceived as being strong."

She fidgeted with the sleeve of her jacket. "If th-that was the case, he would have had to react strongly in order to avoid becoming a laughingstock with his people."
living_endless: ([neg] not buying it)

Re: Knights and Ladies! [AiL: Class Three]

[personal profile] living_endless 2009-09-16 04:04 pm (UTC)(link)
Didi shook her head. "True strength is not having to jump to what's expected of you. I'm not saying it would be easy, but -- he's king. They aren't. He could change the rules."

Re: Knights and Ladies! [AiL: Class Three]

[identity profile] shyest-eyes.livejournal.com 2009-09-16 04:20 pm (UTC)(link)
"There are as many d-definitions of 'true strength' as there are people," Hinata said, looking up from her hands. "A king is but one man, compared to a nation of people. He could ch-change some things, but if he ignores th-their opinion too long, or on something they feel really strongly about, he will have to face the consequences."

A pause.

"King does not mean 'God'. He is not all-powerful, he is b-but a man, and any man can be dealt with."
living_endless: ([neg] serious and thoughtful)

Re: Knights and Ladies! [AiL: Class Three]

[personal profile] living_endless 2009-09-16 04:27 pm (UTC)(link)
"Any being can be dealt with," Didi corrected thoughtfully. "I see your point. I think that this time, Arthur could break a few of his rules and convince the people to look the other way, but you're right that isn't always the answer."

Re: Knights and Ladies! [AiL: Class Three]

[identity profile] shyest-eyes.livejournal.com 2009-09-16 04:44 pm (UTC)(link)
"Quite possibly," she admitted, glancing back down. "But it i-is a something he must take into consideration, I feel."
thatsamilkshake: (troubled)

Re: Knights and Ladies! [AiL: Class Three]

[personal profile] thatsamilkshake 2009-09-16 07:15 pm (UTC)(link)
Francine let the argument about what he could have done play out, then said softly, "The Arthur I know wouldn't let people he loves die."
living_endless: ([pos] has her secrets)

Re: Knights and Ladies! [AiL: Class Three]

[personal profile] living_endless 2009-09-16 07:26 pm (UTC)(link)
"I don't know the Arthur who goes to school here," Didi said slowly. She had picked up that one existed from the flailing during the lecture.

"But -- some of them would, for pride, or because they saw it as duty. Or maybe because they didn't love the way your Arthur does." She shrugged. "Lots of worlds, right?"
thatsamilkshake: (rain)

Re: Knights and Ladies! [AiL: Class Three]

[personal profile] thatsamilkshake 2009-09-16 08:00 pm (UTC)(link)
"Maybe." Francine could hardly argue that last one. "But not every story about them has to be true someplace else. They can just be wrong too. It's not like people never tell lies."
living_endless: ([neu] thinking)

Re: Knights and Ladies! [AiL: Class Three]

[personal profile] living_endless 2009-09-16 10:54 pm (UTC)(link)
"Some stories are just wrong," Didi admitted.

This one wasn't, as far as she knew, but she couldn't argue the larger point.

"Can I ask why it matters so much to you?"
thatsamilkshake: (windy)

Re: Knights and Ladies! [AiL: Class Three]

[personal profile] thatsamilkshake 2009-09-16 11:20 pm (UTC)(link)
"Because Merlin and Arthur are--" Oh sure, make her come up with a noun that worked for both of them. Or...not. "Because I love them. And I know they wouldn't do things like that."
living_endless: ([neu] come this way)

Re: Knights and Ladies! [AiL: Class Three]

[personal profile] living_endless 2009-09-17 12:07 am (UTC)(link)
The answer that came to mind was I'm sure YOUR and Merlin Arthur wouldn't, and Didi could taste how patronizing that would feel. So she grimaced, apologetically, and said "Sorry. I see where this class would be tough."

thatsamilkshake: (Default)

Re: Knights and Ladies! [AiL: Class Three]

[personal profile] thatsamilkshake 2009-09-17 03:32 am (UTC)(link)
Francine was starting to feel a little dumb about it, really, because she did understand the whole reading-it-as-literature thing. It was more people's reactions to the stories that made her twitch so hard. "I read this stuff when I was little. It's just... different now that I actually know them."
glacial_queen: (Don't try it glare)

Re: Knights and Ladies! [AiL: Class Three]

[personal profile] glacial_queen 2009-09-16 03:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Normally, Karla's tirae would begin with, 'And this is what happens when you leave males in charge...' but she understood that this was not Kaeleer (or else it wouldn't be a problem) and that point, while valid, probably had no place in the discussion.

"Does the king get to sleep with other females?" Karla countered, still not really understanding the whole 'gender inequality' thing. "I mean, if he's also tumbling dairy maids and whatnot, why isn't he on trial, too?"

Re: Knights and Ladies! [AiL: Class Three]

[identity profile] ancientbschamp.livejournal.com 2009-09-16 03:38 pm (UTC)(link)
"I was wondering that myself," Gabrielle jumped in, not as much out of a sense of 'this system is backwards' as her own stubborn idealism and the growing frustration of realizing that Xena never got any credit anywhere in the history books for a lot of the things she'd done. "Why is it always all right for some man in power to get away with all of these things? I don't care if he's a king, or a god, or some famous hero. It's not right."

Re: Knights and Ladies! [AiL: Class Three]

[identity profile] heartflames.livejournal.com 2009-09-16 10:06 pm (UTC)(link)
"I couldn't agree with you more," Eleanor said, glancing at both Karla and Gabrielle. "I wish I knew who it was that decided years ago that women were less than men." She would love to give those people a piece of her mind, but that wasn't the point here. "I don't even know how it came it about or why people started agreeing to it, as several points in history portray women with a lot more power and position. Even now in my own time, though some advances have been made, women are still regarded as second-class to men. We can't hold university degrees, for example."