Destiny & Free Will, Week III [Monday, Period 4]

[atreideslioness]

Class today met down at the pond, as Ghanima felt like feeding the flamingos. 

"Today, children, we discuss semantics," Ghanima said briskly from her seat on the grass.  "Although the words are used interchangeably in many cases, fate and destiny can be, and should be, distinguished."  She smiled, kicking her heels slightly.  "Don't groan at me.  Semantics are your friends, I promise.  When you know a word, inside and out, it becomes more than a word.  It's a friend, a weapon, and a great source of fun at the expense of other people."

"Modern usage defines fate as a power or agency that predetermines and orders the course of events. Fate defines events as ordered or "inevitable". Fate is used in regard to the finality of events as they have worked themselves out; and that same sense of finality, projected into the future to become the inevitability of events as they will work themselves out, is Destiny."

"One word derivative of "fate" is "fatality", another "fatalism". Fate implies no choice, and ends fatally, with a death. Fate is an outcome determined by an outside agency acting upon a person or entity; but with destiny the entity is participating in achieving an outcome that is directly related to itself. Participation happens willfully."

"Used in the past tense, "destiny" and "fate" are both more interchangeable, both imply "one's lot" or fortunes, and include the sum of events leading up to a currently achieved outcome.  For instance, if we were speaking of a previous event, say, Boudicca's battle against the Romans, we could safely say that "it was her destiny to be leader" or "it was her fate to be leader", and both would be correct." 

"Fate can involve things which are bound within and subject to larger networks. A set of mathematical functions arranged in a grid and interacting in defined ways is Fatelike. Likewise the individual statues in a larger work of counterpoint art are aesthetically Fated within the work. In each case Fate is external to every individual component, but integral to the network. Every component acts as Fate for every other component. The entire world can be seen as existing within such a network, a kind of mythical spiderweb controlled by unseen forces."

"Now, where does fate come from?" she asked.  "In classical and European mythology, there are three goddesses dispensing fate, The "Fates" known as Moirae in Greek mythology, as Parcae in Roman mythology, and Norns in Norse mythology; they determine the events of the world through the mystic spinning of threads that represent individual human destinies," she said, writing on the chalkboard.  "Three sets of three, each fitting the 'Maiden/Mother/Crone' archetype, each from a different culture." 

"So, let's chat.  Semantics and harbingers of fate.  I'm curious to hear what you think."

[OCD is up, go forth and have fun!]

Comments

Sign-In #3

[atreideslioness]

As the Fates dictate!

Re: Sign-In #3

[trigons_child]

Rachel Roth

During the Lecture

[atreideslioness]

Take notes, pass notes, chatter...

Re: During the Lecture

[trigons_child]

Raven listened to the lecture, though her mind wandered a bit between fate and destiny and what Azar believed was her fate and her recent conversations with Joan and Dinah.

Re: During the Lecture

[weetuskenraider]

Honestly, Tahiri had spent so much time lately studying starfighter tactics on her datapad that she almost didn't know what to do with herself during the lecture. She didn't actually pull the datapad out and start reading (since she hadn't brought it with her), but she did keep fidgeting.

Re: During the Lecture

[a-demosthenes.livejournal.com]

Valentine was a big fan of semantics, so it shouldn't be a surprise that her pen was getting a workout as she scribble down bits and pieces of the lecture on her notebook, balanced on her knees as she sat and listened.

Re: During the Lecture

[new-to-liirness.livejournal.com]

Liir wondered how that myth would play into some from Oz, how Kumbricia and Lurline stood up to the Moirae.

Re: During the Lecture

[glacial_queen]

Karla listened avidly to the lecture, taking lots of notes. One page was for the vocabulary and all of the nuances of the words, and the other was for the cultural views of Fate. Interesting how weaving was still an important part of Fate, even here.

Re: During the Lecture

[kestrelswolf.livejournal.com]

Firekeeper... tried to listen, really she did. But semantics was an incredibly frustrating subject when one's grasp of human language was incomplete as hers was.

Re: During the Lecture

[finding-x-dream.livejournal.com]

Agnes frowned and took notes.

Re: During the Lecture

[gotyourmateria.livejournal.com]

Yuffie may not be human at the moment, but she still showed up for class. And spent a bit of time playing with shiny rocks on the edge of the pond.

Re: During the Lecture

[momslilassassin]

Ben took notes, which gradually devolved into doodles. He still wasn't sure what he felt about this entire concept.

Discussion: Kismet

[atreideslioness]

"Another term, often misused, is kismet. Kismet derives from the Arabic word qismah, and entered the English language via the Turkish word kısmet, meaning either "the will/save Allah" or "portion, lot or fate". In English, the word is often synonymous with fate or destiny, thereby confusing the terminology even further," Ghanima said. "To understand the shades of meaning behind kismet, we'd have to take an in-dept look at Qadr and aqidah, and the concepts of predestination in Islam, but we unfortunately only have seven weeks to this class and not seven years." Ghanima grinned at the class. "What other words have you heard used to mean 'destiny' or 'fate'? Do you think they fit?"

Re: Discussion: Kismet

[trigons_child]

"Doom is used if someone believes their fate to be an unpleasant one," Raven said. Not that she had any experience with that.

Re: Discussion: Kismet

[a-demosthenes.livejournal.com]

"Serendipity," Valentine offered, "which is interesting as it very specifically implies a hand of chance or luck or coincidence, a factor that fate and destiny seem to like to ignore, if not outright reject. I personally find the concept of serendipity easier to swallow than fate or destiny, though."

Re: Discussion: Kismet

[glacial_queen]

"Since coming here, I've stumbled across the term 'foreordained,'" Karla volunteered. "Which sounds like something less abstract than the 'Fate' we casually throw around in conversation and more like what Oedipus was dealing with."

Re: Discussion: Kismet

[sorella-vecchia.livejournal.com]

"'Inevitable', and in some specialized crazy philosophical senses 'determined' are both English words that can be used in that way," Triela offered. "But it strikes me that every language has a slightly different take on the words. And so different people think the concepts have different meanings."

Discussion: Fate, Destiny, and Free Will

[atreideslioness]

Does belief in Fate preclude Free Will? Discuss with your classmates!

Re: Discussion: Fate, Destiny, and Free Will

[new-to-liirness.livejournal.com]

"I don't think they're mutually exclusive, really," he said after a minute.

Re: Discussion: Fate, Destiny, and Free Will

[a-demosthenes.livejournal.com]

Valentine considered being quiet, but she was feeling talkative and cynical today. "More often than not," she said, "if belief in Fate precludes anything, it's responsibility. Meanwhile, as far as Free Will goes, I guess it depends on what your Fate has been determined to be. If it's bad, I'm sure Free Will has nothing to do with it, and that the Fated was purely a victim. However, if the Fate is good, then the Fated had the Free Will to pursue it."

Re: Discussion: Fate, Destiny, and Free Will

[glacial_queen]

"I call that bullshit," Karla answered bluntly. "Going with the definitions from the lecture, I don't believe in Fate. Or, at least, Fate doesn't 'happen' more than a few moments out. Inevitability is a cop-out. A way to recuse yourself of responsibility. I believe that we can catch the glimpses of the future born of the moment that we see it, and that if we continue the same patterns of behavior that these glimpses can become Fated or Destined or whatever, but I refuse to believe that one's entire life is etched into stone, with no way to change anything."

Discussion: Fate is a Woman

[atreideslioness]

The Moirae, the Parcae, the Norns. What other harbingers of Fate are you familiar with? Why do you think the Fates are usually portrayed as female?

Re: Discussion: Fate is a Woman

[new-to-liirness.livejournal.com]

"...we have other figures," he offered, "not quite as clearly to do with Fate as these seem to be, but Kumbricia and Lurline are said to have acted to set certain events in motion, to shape Oz to some unknown Fate. And of course, there's the Unnamed God."

Talk to the TAs

[atreideslioness]

If they're around...

Re: Talk to the TAs

[weetuskenraider]

Tahiri was around, and keeping her mouth shut about a lot of the things she could have shared in class, mostly to avoid having to explain why she knew them . . .

Talk to Ghanima

[atreideslioness]

She's there, both before and after class.

Re: Talk to Ghanima

[tyler_gone]

After class, Tyler stopped throwing breadcrumbs at the ducks and wandered over to Ghanima. "Good day?" he asked.

There was a certain dry overtone to his voice stemming from his thought that, however class had gone, it had to be better than last night.

OOC

[atreideslioness]

I'm back, I have a suitcase full of comics, and I left bigdamndestiny with a limp.

My laugh is an evil laugh.

Re: OOC

[ancientbschamp.livejournal.com]

A moment, if you will, in which I am sorry Gabrielle is not in this class. ;)

Dammit. I think "When Fates Collide" is overly schmoopy and overrated. And now I want to watch it again.