The Art of War, Week #5 [Period 3, Monday]

[atreideslioness]

Ghanima was keeping a careful watch on her students as they arrived today, making sure no one was still suffering from the lingering effects of last Thursday.

"Good morning. Today, we work with chapter four, often known as 'Tactical Dispositions'," she said, smiling at them as she hopped off her desk and walked over to the chalkboard. "Sun Tzu said: 'The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy.'"



She picked the chalk up and began to write. "First, he claimed that 'to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.' This is excellent advice, as it reminds us that the enemy is never perfect, and that everyone, ourselves included, has a weakness. 'Thus the good fighter is able to secure himself against defeat, but cannot make certain of defeating the enemy.'"

"'Security against defeat implies defensive tactics; ability to defeat the enemy means taking the offensive,'" she recited, writing quickly. "'Standing on the defensive indicates insufficient strength; attacking, a superabundance of strength.'"

"So, how do we reconcile these differences?" she asked, looking at them. "How can you create a plan of attack for anything, not just combat, using Tzu's ideas? Wooing a romantic partner by using almost defensive-only tactics seems doomed to failure, as does using that mindset during a business transaction. We know from our earlier lesson that a prologued engagement benefits no one in the long run, why do you then think Tzu advocates waiting here?" Ghanima set down her chalk and turned around to face them fully. "I'd like you to get in small groups of two or three and discuss this, and try to come up with a non-combat situation where this would be a viable, and indeed desirable, strategy."


"Begin."

[OOC: OCD is up, have fun!]

Comments

Small Group Work

[atreideslioness]

"Security against defeat implies defensive tactics; ability to defeat the enemy means taking the offensive." Do you agree? Why or why not? Is this incompatible with Tzu's earlier assertion that good fighters put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat? What sort of non-combat situation could you see this fourth p'ien being useful for?

Re: Small Group Work

[intraspective]

Ino nibbled thoughtfully on the cap of her pen as she waited for someone (or someones) to join her.

Re: Small Group Work

[momslilassassin]

"This makes a lot of sense," Ben said thoughtfully. "You can only really affect you, after all. You can control your mistakes--you just have to wait for someone else to make one first."

Re: Small Group Work

[intraspective]

"It does a bit," she conceded, taking the cap from her mouth, "but it seems rather simplistic, don't you think? You can guard against mistakes of your own, but other people can set things up so that a mistake happens and it's your fault. Or you could do that to someone else too, and have them be making a mistake when they wouldn't of had you not 'helped'."

Re: Small Group Work

[momslilassassin]

Ben nodded. "That's what my cousin did--set up a mistake--and now he's in charge of the galaxy."

Stellar example for the young people, Jacen was.

Re: Small Group Work

[intraspective]

"Some mistake," Ino said, sounding impressed. "But, yeah, it does make it sound a bit simple to just say 'watch out for your mistakes', don't you think? I mean, really..."

Re: Small Group Work

[momslilassassin]

"And watch out for other people who are watching your mistakes?" Ben added, sounding unsure. "Wow. Follow this and you're gonna end up paranoid."

Re: Small Group Work

[intraspective]

Ino wrinkled her nose. "I mean, maybe paranoia is a good thing to an extent? It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you, and all of that? But I don't think anyone could keep an eye out like that all the time."

Re: Small Group Work

[momslilassassin]

"Not and sleep ever," Ben said. "And what if you do something that makes sense at the time and turns out to be a mistake later? But sitting around passively can be just as big a mistake."

Re: Small Group Work

[ella-obeys.livejournal.com]

Ella reread the chapter in her text as she waited for a partner.

Re: Small Group Work

[finding-x-dream.livejournal.com]

"I'm not sure they're really all that contradictory?" Agnes mused, as she sat down next to Ella. "They're more complimentary, I think."

Re: Small Group Work

[ella-obeys.livejournal.com]

"What's complimentary?" Ella asked, looking up with an easy smile. "I got a little lost -- there always seem to be so many ideas in this class."

Re: Small Group Work

[finding-x-dream.livejournal.com]

Way to go, lardbutt. Intimidate her, why don't you?

"I mean... they fit together, I think? They look opposite, but they go together."

Re: Small Group Work

[ella-obeys.livejournal.com]

It took a second but Ella laughed, while still managing to look somewhat outraged. "I know what complimentary means, I just don't know what two things you're comparing. Standing on the defensive and taking the offensive?"

Re: Small Group Work

[finding-x-dream.livejournal.com]

Agnes turned beet red and stared down at her text.

Congratulations on being a total idiot.

"Yeah, that. The two things. A good fighter is really well-defended, but also you can't win unless you take the offense. Um. So you need both?"

Re: Small Group Work

[ella-obeys.livejournal.com]

"Right," Ella said, raising an eyebrow skeptically. "You're right, I mean. I feel bad if I embarassed you."

Re: Small Group Work

[finding-x-dream.livejournal.com]

"Oh, no," Agnes told her. "I did that all on my own. I'm sorry I insulted you."

Re: Small Group Work

[new-to-liirness.livejournal.com]

Liir was deep in thought as he waited to see if anyone wanted to work with him.

Re: Small Group Work

[wantstodirect]

"Hey," Tony said. "Want to work together?"

Re: Small Group Work

[new-to-liirness.livejournal.com]

He smiled up at Tony and nodded.

"Sounds like an idea to me. What were you thinking of the question?"

Re: Small Group Work

[wantstodirect]

Tony considered. "I think it means that you have to have a strong defense before anything else. Besides, if you've got a good defense, the enemy's more likely to do something stupid trying to get to you and give you a chance to strike back."

Re: Small Group Work

[new-to-liirness.livejournal.com]

"I think it's more than that," he admitted after a moment.

"After all, everyone has weaknesses," he pointed out as he thought over the lesson, "so you can't eradicate every weakness. No defense is perfect. I think it's more that you need to make sure that you, your decisions, and your forces have...

"I suppose the word would be integrity. I can't think of anything else. But something solid to work with, dependable."

Re: Small Group Work

[wantstodirect]

Tony nodded. "That makes a lot of sense." He doodled idly in the margin of his notes. "I hung out with Andrew on Saturday," he said casually.

Re: Small Group Work

[new-to-liirness.livejournal.com]

He blinked only once and the pieces put themselves together almost too quickly. Or at least, it felt quickly. His head felt a little wobbly. Dizzy.

"And you have a date, or so I've heard."

Andrew hadn't told him it was Tony, but he was rather good at math.

Re: Small Group Work

[wantstodirect]

"You okay with that?" Tony asked. "I know you guys have a history - but I like hanging out with you. I don't want it to be weird."