fandomhigh | Destiny & Free Will, #5 [Period 1, Monday, August 4th]

As students arrived today, they might notice Ghanima deep in conversation with a student most definitely not in the class. On the chalkboard, she had written three words:

Sarv-gyaata | Sarv-samarth | Sarv-vyapt

Once they had assembled, Ghanima directed the blonde girl to an empty desk before she turned her attention to the class, a weetiny red bird perched on her shoulder.

"Good morning, students," she said clearly. "Today we study the the 'omni' categories. Omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent."

"Omniscience is the capacity to know everything infinitely, or at least everything that can be known about a person, including thoughts, feelings, life and the universe, and so on," she said, beginning to write on the board. "In monotheism, this ability is typically attributed to God. This concept is included in the Qur'an, where God is called "Al-'aleem" on multiple occasions. This is the infinite form of the verb "alema" which means to know. In the Bible, God is referred to often as "The Great I Am," among other similar names, which also incorporates His omnipresence and omnipotence. In Hinduism, God is referred to as sarv-gyaata," she pointed at the words on the board, "which means omniscient, sarv-samarth, or omnipotent, and sarv-vyapt, omnipresent."

"There is a distinction between inherent omniscience, which is the ability to know anything that one chooses to know and can be known, and total omniscience, which is actually knowing everything that can be known." Ghanima smiled and tapped her chalk against the board. "It might sound like more semantics to you, but I promise, it's a very large difference."

"Some modern theologians argue that God's omniscience is inherent rather than total, and that God chooses to limit his omniscience in order to preserve the freewill and dignity of his creatures. Certain theologians of the 16th Century, comfortable with the definition of God as being omniscient in the total sense, to rebuke created beings' ability to choose freely, embraced the doctrine of predestination."

"Our second topic, omnipresence, is the ability to be present in every place at any, and/or every, time; unbounded or universal presence. It is related to the concept of ubiquity, the ability to be everywhere at a certain point in time. Some argue that omnipresence is a derived characteristic: an omniscient and omnipotent deity knows every thing and can be and act every where, simultaneously. Others propound a deity as having the "Three O's", including omnipresence as a unique characteristic of the deity."

"Omnipotence is where it starts to get a bit trickier," she said thoughtfully. "Belief that God can do absolutely anything can be thought to yield certain logical paradoxes. A simple example goes as follows: Can God create a rock so heavy that even he cannot lift it? If he can, then the rock is now unliftable, limiting God's power. But if he cannot, then he is still not omnipotent. This question cannot be answered using formal logic due to its self-referential nature. Two excellent examples of this are the liar paradox and Godel's incompleteness theorem. This problem led in the High Middle Ages to developing the concept of mathematical infinity, and laid the basis for infinitesimal calculus."

"A good example of this trinity might be your erstwhile TA here," Ghanima said, placing Reno on her desk. He thanked her by giving the entire class a raspberry before enthusiastically beginning to explore her candy dish.

Ghanima was going to need more lemon drops.

"One could argue that an omniscient god would, one, know of Reno's habit of thumbing his nose at destiny," Reno looked up and warked loudly, and Ghanima shushed him. "He, she, or it, would also know of every thought he has ever had, or ever will have. The omniscient god would know that being something cute and fluffy would be rather embarrassing for him, and therefore rather fitting. Two, an omnipotent god could easily make him a fluffy birdie, and finally, an omnipresent god would be able to enact it in the here and now."

"So, I would like you to pair up and discuss. What do you think is most important for a divine being that's writing destiny? Which of the Omnis is most compatible with the idea of free will? Which is the most incompatible? Do you feel omnipresence is part of the other two, or is it something that can stand separately. Can you be omniscient if you are not omnipresent? Team up, and decide."

[OOC: ~~Please wait for the~~ OCD ~~to appear~~ is up, have at it. Rikku and Reno both modded with permissions of the muns.]

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

In an omnipresent manner!

Alex Drake

Gwen Cooper

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Take notes, pass notes, boggle at the weebirdie on Ghani's shoulder! Isn't he cute?

Romeo should have been taking notes. Really.

But could he really be blamed if he spent most of the session staring at the Reno bird and fighting the urge to laugh aloud instead?

Savannah was taking notes.

Helen always took notes.

John had promised notes, so after listening he scrawled on a bit of paper.

God questions lead to math.

Sora was very much distracted by the weebirdie.

As mentioned, pair up, and discuss one of the questions Ghanima posed:

- What do you think is most important for a divine being that's writing destiny?

- Which of the Omnis is most compatible with the idea of free will? Which is the most incompatible?

- Do you feel omnipresence is part of the other two, or is it something that can stand separately.

- Can you be omniscient if you are not omnipresent?

Alex looked around for someone to pair up with.

Romeo was available to be paired up with.

Granted, the main question he'd be interested in discussing was "Why is Reno a red bird, and are there pictures?" but he was there all the same and could probably even be prodded on topic.

Helen turned to Romeo. "I don't think any of them are necessarily incompatible with free will. A God just knowing everything or being everywhere or being all powerful doesn't mean we can't do what want."

Re: Activity!

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Savannah was writing all of this down and looking around for a partner.

Andros looked around for a partner.

Sam had some very specific ideas on this subject, and looked around to see if anyone wanted to talk to him about their own thoughts.

Well, you can try to talk to Reno, but Ghani doubts you'll get anywhere. You'll be better off talking with Dawn ~~if she's here~~.

Rikku isn't a TA, but she has one snuggled in her hands.

... not dirty.

"You didn't call me," Romeo declared, poking a finger toward the bird before withdrawing it. "Wait, does he bite?"

Edited 2008-08-04 12:08 (UTC)

Re: Talk to the TAs

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Dawn was there, possibly overly amused by the idea of omniscient gods. Because, well, the one she'd known sooooooo wasn't.

She's here to answer your questions, both before and after class.

"He's gonna kill me," Rikku said cheerfully.

"He will do no such thing, Miss Rikku," Ghanima answered tranquilly as she tossed Reno another candy. "First, he knows my classes tend to be hands-on at times. It should be no surprise to Reno that I made him an excellent example for the lesson."

"Second, while Reno may, at times, posses overwhelming hubris in his abilities - " the smile in Ghani's voice made it rather clear she didn't necessarily find this a bad thing - "thankfully, it does not seem to translate into taking himself too terribly seriously. Besides, it's not like I'm recording the class for future use." That Reno knew of, anyway. Ghani did voice-record all of her classes for her own archival reasons.

Re: Chat with Ghanima

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Wee!Tinies! Come baaaaaaaaaaack!

Jaina won't be here today as she is off on the mission from hell. ...She'd much rather be in class.

Re: OOC

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