http://harringtongreen.livejournal.com/ ([identity profile] harringtongreen.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] fandomhigh2006-10-05 11:22 am
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War Theory, Thursday, 4th Period

Honor leaned against the edge of the desk at the front of the classroom as the students filed in, half-standing, half-sitting. She wore civvies today -- khakis and a fitted tee, her long hair hanging free around her face. Her left arm seemed permanently bent at the elbow and she held it close in to her body; it didn't seem to move at all, even as she did. Strangely, Nimitz was nowhere to be seen today, and her bodyguard, Andrew LaFollet hovered in the background.

"All right, everyone, please come in and take your seats so we can get started." She forced a smile and waited until everyone was seated. She then slipped off the desk and rounded the corner to the board. There, she wrote a timeline, similar to the one from the previous class. She added a dot somewhere around 1300 AD, labelling it "Summa Theologica."

"You were instructed last week to review the Summa Theologica, Question 40, Article 1 -- 'Whether it is always sinful to wage war?' For those of you who weren't curious enough to, ah, Google St. Thomas Aquinas, we'll start with a little background information.

"Thomas Aquinas was born into a noble family in the Kingdom of Naples between 1225 and 1227 CE. He was sent to university when he came of age, and studied the liberal arts, as suggested by Plato -- grammar, logic, natural sciences, music, mathematics, geometry, and astronomy. When he made his first overtures to join the Order, he was captured by his own family and held as they tried to discourage his vocation. Finally, after two years, they relented.

"As a member of the Order of St. Dominic, St. Thomas became noted for his lessons, travelling widely as a professor. He eventually died in 1274, and was canonized by John XXII in 1323.

"Summa Theologica, which you read in part for this class, is the work that 'immortalized' him among Western thinkers. It, combined with the work of St. Augustine, from whom Aquinas worked, became the foundation for Western thought in morality -- especially morality in warfare. Question 40, Article 1 deals specifically with jus in bello or justice in war.

"Today we're going to discuss three questions. One: who, according to Aquinas, has the authority to wage and execute war? Two: What are his qualifications on a 'just war'? And three: Are there similarities between the ideas presented by Thucydides, Sun Tzu, and Aquinas? If so, what are they?"

Honor smiled. "I know that's a lot to digest, so we'll take it slowly." She leant back against the desk and allowed the students to jump into their discussion; she chose mostly to act as moderator, not feeling quite her usual self today. With five minutes left to class, her eyes flitted to the clock and she drew the session to a close.


"Your assignment for next week is to review the Declaration of Independence. Come prepared with a question on the material to pose to your classmates...and be sure to pay close attention to the charges the Continental Congress levels at King George.

"Class dismissed."

[Once again, I am stuck posting by e-mail. If the first person to sign in would establish the "Sign In" thread, and the first person to respond to the discussion would establish the "Discussion" thread, I would appreciate it. If you feel the need, you can also set up a "Sidebar" thread, for all those little off-topic comments between yourselves. I'll handle the after class stuff when I get home this evening. Thanks, guys!]

Sign In

[identity profile] once-a-king.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 03:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Peter Pevensie

Re: Sign In

[identity profile] bookwormwood.livejournal.com 2006-10-06 05:08 am (UTC)(link)
Matilda Wormwood

Re: Sign In

[identity profile] izzyalienqueen.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 05:35 pm (UTC)(link)
Isabel Evans

Question One

[identity profile] once-a-king.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 03:48 pm (UTC)(link)
"Aquinas determined that only the sovereign has the authority to wage war," Peter said thoughtfully. "But he doesn't clarify how exactly the sovereign is determined. Obviously the King or Queen, but what about in democracies like the United States?"

Re: Question One

[identity profile] bound2blade.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 04:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Setsuna frowned a bit. "I always figured that, at the time Aquinas was writing, democracies like the United States were virtually unheard of. So it wouldn't have even been a consideration."

Re: Question One

[identity profile] once-a-king.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 04:18 pm (UTC)(link)
"No, but if he's to be applicable to the present time, the question needs to be determined," Peter replied. He looked back through his notes. "Though I suppose 'those who are in supreme authority' could rather cover it."

Re: Question One

[identity profile] cyclopeanmerc.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 10:21 pm (UTC)(link)
"Well, we've been hired by less," Pip said, scratching his head.

Re: Question One

[identity profile] once-a-king.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 10:24 pm (UTC)(link)
"Though the point doesn't really apply unless you only accept jobs those in positions of 'supreme authority,'" Peter pointed out. "Which...somehow I doubt?"

Re: Question One

[identity profile] cyclopeanmerc.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 10:34 pm (UTC)(link)
"Well, we have, but it's really rare. Would it count in corporate warfare, then, if so ordered by a CEO? We've been hired by those before."

Re: Question One

[identity profile] once-a-king.livejournal.com 2006-10-06 12:49 am (UTC)(link)
"I doubt that Aquinas' definition would cover corporate warfare..." Peter said.

Re: Question One

[identity profile] cyclopeanmerc.livejournal.com 2006-10-06 12:52 am (UTC)(link)
"What if it involved actualy fighting? Like with guns?"

Re: Question One

[identity profile] once-a-king.livejournal.com 2006-10-06 01:12 am (UTC)(link)
"It still wouldn't fulfill his requirements," Peter replied. "It's not the weapons that make the difference, but the reason. A business isn't a sovereign country."

Re: Question One

[identity profile] cyclopeanmerc.livejournal.com 2006-10-06 01:15 am (UTC)(link)
"Some of them are more powerful," Pip said. "Some of them act like countries of their own."

Re: Question One

[identity profile] once-a-king.livejournal.com 2006-10-06 01:25 am (UTC)(link)
Peter looked at Pip then quoted: "For it is not the business of a private individual to declare war, because he can seek for redress of his rights from the tribunal of his superior." He paused. "I think between that and 'authority of the sovereign' it's crystal that Aquinas is referring to countries. Not corporations however many guns they have."

Re: Question One

[identity profile] cyclopeanmerc.livejournal.com 2006-10-06 01:27 am (UTC)(link)
"Well then, how do you define country?" Pip asked. "Aquinas is talking in dated terms."

Question Two

[identity profile] izzyalienqueen.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 05:45 pm (UTC)(link)
"A just war is one that avenges wrongs, or when a nation is punished for refusing to make amends, or to take back something that has been unjustly seized," Isabel listed.

Re: Question Two

[identity profile] cat-in-the-box.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 08:52 pm (UTC)(link)
"Which seems a little arbitrary to me," Schroinger said.

Re: Question Two

[identity profile] izzyalienqueen.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 09:04 pm (UTC)(link)
"Why? They're all legitimate reasons."

Re: Question Two

[identity profile] cat-in-the-box.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 09:21 pm (UTC)(link)
"Well, yeah. According to him. We must judge our reasons for going to war by what Thomas said hundreds of years ago?"

Re: Question Two

[identity profile] izzyalienqueen.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 09:25 pm (UTC)(link)
"Give me a legitimate reason why those same reasons don't apply right now then," she said. "Just because it was written a few hundred years ago doesn't make it any less right."

Re: Question Two

[identity profile] cat-in-the-box.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 09:28 pm (UTC)(link)
"Define 'wrongs', for me. Then define what can make a seizing of a nation 'unjust'. And who decides when a nation needs to make amends?"

Re: Question Two

[identity profile] izzyalienqueen.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 09:39 pm (UTC)(link)
"I'd say wrong would be when the actions of one country directly interfere in the affairs of another," Isabel said. "In smaller, simpler terms then, I suppose you wouldn't care if I just arbitrarily moved into your room, took over your things and told you tough, it was all mine now. Finally, in theory that's the purpose of a unified body like the UN."

Re: Question Two

[identity profile] cat-in-the-box.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 09:43 pm (UTC)(link)
"I share a room, so you'd have as equally a good chance of taking Billy's stuff as mine. But that's beside the point really. What if I'm the leader of a country and I am slowly but surely exterminating a certain group of people from my country. Now, I'm not infringing on any other country, and your UN is not doing anything about it. By your definitions, yours would be an unjust war if you invaded me."

Re: Question Two

[identity profile] izzyalienqueen.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 10:00 pm (UTC)(link)
"Welcome to the wonderful world of nuance then. Because intervening for the sake of the people is certainly worth doing, whether or not it's considered wrong by my definition."

Re: Question Two

[identity profile] cat-in-the-box.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 10:05 pm (UTC)(link)
"Nuance? That isn't nuance. That's a reason outside yours and apparently Thomas Aqunias' definitions. I'm not morally presumptuous enough to decide whether it's right or wrong, but you have to admit that is a possibillity not covered by Thomas' ideas of a just war."

Re: Question Two

[identity profile] izzyalienqueen.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 10:14 pm (UTC)(link)
"In this case? I am. So if we're going to play strictly by the defintions, I'll be quite happy to be wrong."

Re: Question Two

[identity profile] cat-in-the-box.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 10:20 pm (UTC)(link)
"Good for you! So we agree that these definitions are arbitrary?"

Re: Question Two

[identity profile] izzyalienqueen.livejournal.com 2006-10-05 11:09 pm (UTC)(link)
"Sure," Isabel smiled. "If that's what you need." Turning away in dismissal she focused on her notes.

Re: After Class

[identity profile] once-a-king.livejournal.com 2006-10-06 02:07 am (UTC)(link)
Peter approached Honor after class was over, paper in hand. "My Lady?" He tilted his head towards her. "Are you hurt?"

Re: After Class

[identity profile] once-a-king.livejournal.com 2006-10-06 02:35 am (UTC)(link)
Peter smiled back. "I'm glad it's not anything serious." He handed her three pages, closely handwritten in neat script. "There you are, ma'am. I don't think I agree with Hobbes' very much."

Re: After Class

[identity profile] once-a-king.livejournal.com 2006-10-06 02:53 am (UTC)(link)
"A bit?" Peter asked. "That's a bit of an understatement, you don't think? He actually used the term 'nasty, brutish, and short' to describe life. Even if it was under Cromwell, that's a more than a bit pessimistic."

Re: After Class

[identity profile] once-a-king.livejournal.com 2006-10-06 03:14 am (UTC)(link)
Peter nodded thoughtfully. "I am, however, happy that he consigned himself to studying and writing about politics instead of actually governing with his theories."

Re: After Class

[identity profile] once-a-king.livejournal.com 2006-10-06 03:42 am (UTC)(link)
Peter's face hardened with memories of the White Witch. "Yes, my Lady," he said with a sharp nod. "There's little one can do with that but stand in rebellion."

Re: After Class

[identity profile] once-a-king.livejournal.com 2006-10-06 04:18 am (UTC)(link)
"We do all that we can, my Lady," Peter replied definitively. He nodded. "You're welcome and thank you for your time, ma'am."