Practical Squiring, Thursday

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

"A knight is more than just a soldier when all is said and done. Anyone can have a weapon given to them and told to kill to defend their lord, but a knight is supposed to be better than that."

Emphasis on the 'supposed to be' there. Today they met in a regular classroom, devoid of barrels, or armor, or swords. Jaime granted the students a slightly brittle smile as he kept on. "To become a knight, you are made to swear vows before your gods--who or whatever they may be--vows that demand you protect the defenseless, defend the weak, obey your king and liege lord... All sorts of vows."

Perhaps it was Brienne's fault that he was even bringing this up for class. Time spent with that beast of a woman had forced him to remember when he'd actually believed in honor and glory.

"But what do you do when they conflict?" Jaime asked. "You will be an oath breaker regardless of your choice. So where does your honor lay? To defend the weak or to obey your master?"

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[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

Oathly. That's a word now.

Listen to the Lecture

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

La.

Discuss

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

Where does your honor lay?

Talk to Jaime

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

Talk to the hand.

OOC

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

*flops*

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[nottrivial]

Alec Lightwood

Re: Discuss

[nottrivial]

"I'd like to think that the expectations for obedience are all in the name of achieving the actual mission," Alec said. "If they came into conflict, my choice would be to obey their intention, and stick to the mission of offering protection and defense to those who need it."

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[nothornlessrose.livejournal.com]

Cassidy

Re: Discuss

[nothornlessrose.livejournal.com]

Oh Hell's fire. Cassidy hated questions like this.

"My honor is always going to be with protecting the people that I have made a vow to take care of."

The person that tried to be a master to a Queen in Kaeleer would have a whole different kind of problem on their hands.

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[nomelancholy.livejournal.com]

Ulrik of Denmark

Re: Discuss

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

"You swear to obey and protect your king. There is very little leeway in that," Jaime replied.

Re: Discuss

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

"And what of loyalty to others?"

Re: Discuss

[nomelancholy.livejournal.com]

"To defend those in need of defending," Ulrik said, without even needing to think about it. Yes, that was indeed the voice of experience there.

Re: Discuss

[nothornlessrose.livejournal.com]

Cassidy carefully did not look at Shira. She so knew better. Instead, she kept her eyes on Jaime.

"My duty will usually have to come first between any other ties I have," she said quietly. "No matter how much I want to do one thing, if it were to come at the expense of the people I'm charged to protect and defend, then I cannot do it. Even my own desires must come second to my duty to my people."

Which got a little prickly if you asked the current members of her court since they thought she needed to pay more attention to her own safety and care sometimes.

Shira.

Re: Discuss

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

"Ah, but how can your allies trust you then," Jaime countered. "If your word to them means nothing at the expense of your people."

Re: Discuss

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

"Not even a second thought for loyalty?"

Not that Jaime disagreed, but...

Re: Discuss

[nothornlessrose.livejournal.com]

"Because I will always be honest with my allies about my duty to the care of my people," Cassidy answered immediately. That one she was sure of since it had come up in conversations before. "I believe that potential allies would be more disturbed if it seemed that I cared less about my people in the situation. My devotion to the care of my own people is a good judgement of how I would treat another's issue or people. How can they trust me if I do not have the example of being a good leader in my own realm to show them?"

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[walkswithcoyote]

Mercy Thompson

Re: Discuss

[nottrivial]

"But only because it's expected that the king -- so to speak -- will be honorable," Alec countered. "Which is my primary concern."

Re: Discuss

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

"Honesty means as much as a pile of horse shit when it comes to battle," he said good naturedly. "You can't protect everyone, trust me. Sacrifices are always necessary."

Re: Discuss

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

"What king is?"

Re: Discuss

[nottrivial]

"Well..." Curse his modern-day New York upbringing! "I can't say I know of any kings personally, honorable or not," Alec admitted, flushing slightly. "But I think the kind of king who could earn the unwavering loyalty of all of his knights would be one who is honorable enough to not ask them to sacrifice their mission."

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[twintuitionist.livejournal.com]

Juliet Darling

Re: Discuss

[nothornlessrose.livejournal.com]

Cassidy nodded. "Yes, sacrifices will sometimes be required, but a good Queen sacrifices herself before she sacrifices her honor or her people."

Re: Discuss

[twintuitionist.livejournal.com]

"I think my honor has to be with the weak," Juliet decided. "I mean, the king's probably awesome or else he wouldn't be king, but ... part of great power is great responsibility, isn't it?"

So Jeremy had maybe made her watch that movie. Hush.

"Anyhow, so I'm responsible mainly to the little people, so they don't get hurt."