http://professor-lyman.livejournal.com/ ([identity profile] professor-lyman.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] fandomhigh2006-01-18 01:07 pm
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US Government (Wednesday, January 18, 4th period)

Josh stopped his totally grown-up coloring project when his US government class came into the room. Putting the maps of Montana away, he stood up and reached for his notes.

"I could tell from the glazed looks on your faces--and in the case of Clarence, a certain degree of drooling--that you might not have picked up just how important the work of Enlightenment philosophers was to the thinking of the men who eventually founded the modern democracy of the United States."

"Let's back it up a bit. The 1500s and the first half of the 1600s in Europe were pretty much non-stop religious wars. After the political situation stabilized, there was a growing thought that maybe listening to only the churches--which were still very busy damning the other side to hell for their beliefs--to discover and understand, you know, all human knowledge was a bit of a bad idea. The Enlightenment began as a belief in a rational, orderly and comprehensible universe. And then the philosophers began wondering if the universe could be comprehensible, why couldn't governments make sense, too?"

He continued talking about the Enlightenment for another half-hour.

Finally he looked up from his notes. "Everyone still awake? Or mostly? Great. In John Locke's Second Treatise on Government, he claims that by the 'law of nature', every individual has the right to punish those who cause wrongful injury to their life, liberty or property." He looked up. "This might sound terribly familiar for any of you who have ever heard the line in the Declaration of Independence that claims, among other self-evident truths, our unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

He put his hands on his desk and looked around the room. "My question to you is, why do you think that Jefferson changed 'property' to 'pursuit of happiness' in the Declaration?"

He looked around. "Your homework for today is to find a copy of the Declaration of Independence and read it. Understanding it would be a bonus, but reading it is required. See you all on Friday, where we will be talking about the Declaration in excruciating detail."

Re: Discussion question...

[identity profile] izzyalienqueen.livejournal.com 2006-01-18 11:14 pm (UTC)(link)
"Wouldn't property relate more to the past? I mean, for how many centuries were people considered property? And I'm not talking about slavery, but just about life in the Middle Ages in general. The average person usually was born, lived and then died on some feudal estate. They essentially belonged to the lord of the manor. When Jeffereson was writing the Declaration maybe he was trying to say is that here and now, everyone had the opportunity to do whatever they wanted."

Re: Discussion question...

[identity profile] oatmanspatient.livejournal.com 2006-01-18 11:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Marty looked over at Angela when she spoke up, smiled wistfully... Then frowned and looked away.

Re: Discussion question...

[identity profile] kitty--fetish.livejournal.com 2006-01-18 11:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Alphonse thought about the question for a moment. "Poetic value sounds like a pretty silly reason to state something on important documents, in my opinion. I think the last thing I would worry about while telling my king I don't want to be associated with him anymore is to have fancy wording."

Re: Discussion question...

[identity profile] oatmanspatient.livejournal.com 2006-01-18 11:38 pm (UTC)(link)
"Even during that period of time, well before the civil war, there was an intense debate regarding the use of slaves. Even though Jefferson was a slave owner, it was hypocritical to declare property in the declaration of independence when a great deal of the populace in the south were enslaved and had no right to property."

Re: Sign in (January 18, Government)

[identity profile] whitedeathpod.livejournal.com 2006-01-18 11:56 pm (UTC)(link)
John signs in...with flair!

Re: Discussion question...

[identity profile] whitedeathpod.livejournal.com 2006-01-19 12:00 am (UTC)(link)
"Pursuit of happiness sounds more...attainable, I think. A lot of people, in the past, present and future won't be able to afford, gain, inherit property for whatever reason. By changing it to pursuit of happiness, it'll make the average layman think, that by owning a computer, driving a Civic, and enjoying their job that their rights are being fulfilled. Maybe?"

Re: Discussion question...

[identity profile] whitedeathpod.livejournal.com 2006-01-19 12:27 am (UTC)(link)
"It's a good car," John says. "Very fuel efficient."

Re: Sign in (January 18, Government)

[identity profile] kawalsky.livejournal.com 2006-01-19 01:26 am (UTC)(link)
Charlie Kawalsky.

Re: Sign in (January 18, Government)

[identity profile] peter--parker.livejournal.com 2006-01-19 01:28 am (UTC)(link)
Peter Parker

Re: Discussion question...

[identity profile] peter--parker.livejournal.com 2006-01-19 01:45 am (UTC)(link)
"Well, it's kind of tough to follow up Ma-- Clarence's explanation, so if I can, I'll pull a Jefferson and go with what he said, but with a little extra flair. In addition to slavery, I think it was also to make it a bit more generalized for the sake of the new country. I mean, here they were, a new country, the future - and, um, a war - ahead of them. 'Property' is limiting as the third right because it's just too concrete. It can apply to so much more with 'the pursuit of happiness.' It can mean knowledge, family, gardening... Whatever it is that makes you look out the window and say, 'Hey, I'm glad to be here.'"

Peter finally took a good breathe after that ramble. "Which is, I suppose, the long-winded way of saying 'poetry.'"

Re: Discussion question...

[identity profile] kawalsky.livejournal.com 2006-01-19 02:37 am (UTC)(link)
"I'm not much of a writer, but I figure if I was going to write something that would be the foundation of what I wanted to be a great nation, I'd put it in a way that would get people really behind it and want to support it. To do that, I'd have to give people a reason to get behind it. I'd have to get in there and give them something to work for that was possible. Property wasn't always possible for a lot of people who came over to settle here. By changing it to 'pursuit of happiness', it meant that the nation would be based on the best interests and happiness of its citizens whether they had property or not. Jefferson put a promise in there that was vague enough that it could mean a lot of different things to different people, and in a nation where there was the freedom to be different, that was important."
chasingangela: (charms)

Re: Discussion question...

[personal profile] chasingangela 2006-01-19 03:37 am (UTC)(link)
Angela catches Marty's gaze and looks back at him for a second. Eventually, she brings one hand to her mouth and then looks away.

But after class, she goes over to his desk and stands awkwardly. "So... how's it going?" she asks, with a heartiness she doesn't feel.

Re: Discussion question...

[identity profile] oatmanspatient.livejournal.com 2006-01-19 03:45 am (UTC)(link)
Marty hesistated a bit before answering. "Uh. okay," he said in a not so hearty voice and trying to look her in the eye without actually looking *at* her. A difficult task to do when you're also trying to think of something to say.

"How are things with you?"
chasingangela: (scarf)

Re: Discussion question...

[personal profile] chasingangela 2006-01-19 03:53 am (UTC)(link)
Angela notices that Marty's having a hard time deciding where to put his eyes and looks at the floor, so he can't catch her eye anyhow. Things seem simpler that way.

"Okay," she tells her boots. "I dropped my class with Pierson. Congratulations on not winning the election, by the way."

Re: Discussion question...

[identity profile] oatmanspatient.livejournal.com 2006-01-19 04:00 am (UTC)(link)
Marty seems to have an intense interest in his shoes as well.

"Thanks," he said awkwardly trying to think of something to say.

"Somebody gave me an ugly blue dog," he blurted out.

[OOC: Going to bed. Slow play for a bit?]
chasingangela: (shock)

Re: Discussion question...

[personal profile] chasingangela 2006-01-19 04:05 am (UTC)(link)
This startles Angela enough that she forgets about studying her shoes and looks straight at him. "A what? And Camilla hasn't killed the poor beast yet?"

"That's a seriously weird gift. You sure it's not a student?"

[OOC: NP. Sleep well.]

Re: Sign in (January 18, Government)

[identity profile] wannabelawyer.livejournal.com 2006-01-19 04:20 am (UTC)(link)
Lindsey signs in.

Re: Discussion question...

[identity profile] wannabelawyer.livejournal.com 2006-01-19 04:25 am (UTC)(link)
"Part of it was probably that, well, how can you guarantee someone the right to own stuff? Unless you're going to give everyone said stuff, you can't, really. It's much easier to say that people have the right to try and be happy, because that's more abstract. I hadn't even thought about the slave thing before," he continued, nodding in Marty's direction, "but that makes a lot of sense."

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