http://glasses-justice.livejournal.com/ ([identity profile] glasses-justice.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] fandomhigh2010-02-09 10:00 am
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Concepts of Justice and The Law [Period 4, Class #6, Feb 9]

"Let's start today with a hypothetical," Alex said, as soon as class had started. "A man kills his wife. We arrest him. The defense attorney makes a strong case, and our evidence is weak, so the jury votes 'not guilty.' And so, as soon as the trial is over, then we arrest him and try him again. After five 'not guilty' verdicts, we finally get a jury to convict him, and he goes to jail.

"In the cell next to his, in prison, there's a man who likes to rob banks. He was convicted of robbing the Main Street Bank and sentenced to four years in prison. When he's released, the police arrest him, and once again charge him with that same Main Street Bank robbery. Four years just wasn't enough time. Luckily, we still have all that evidence from the last time. The jury convicts again. He's going back in for another four.

Alex lifted her shoulders. "Most people will object to those two scenarios. In the first case, we're going to drag someone through the court system over and over until we receive the verdict we want, which comes off as an abuse of the government's power. The second is even worse: we're punishing a man twice for a single offense. These situations violate our principles of fairness. Justice isn't always fair, but it should certainly strive for it, where it can.

"As protection against the above, some governments institute a rule against double jeopardy." This was helpfully written on the board. "Double jeopardy means that you can't be prosecuted twice for the same crime, regardless of outcome. The State gets one chance to convict you; either you serve your time, or you walk free.

"Double jeopardy seems more fair than the alternative. But like any solution, it has some drawbacks. Here's one. The first hypothetical: we try the man, and the jury votes 'not guilty.' We don't get a second trial, or a third, or a fourth. The man is now untouchable. He hosts a press conference the next day, explaining in detail how and why he killed his wife. He writes books on the topic, and makes a tidy profit. And the law can't lift a finger to stop him. In the eyes of the judicial system, we had our chance, and we blew it. So a murderer walks free.

"That's only one possibility. What if, after the trial finishes, the police find new evidence? Something which dramatically changes everything we know about this case. Should they have a right to re-try the suspect, in light of our discovery? If a man is found not guilty of murder, should we be able to re-arrest him and charge him with manslaughter instead, for that same offense? And at what point in the trial should jeopardy attach? If it's not until the verdict is rendered, what would stop a prosecutor from withdrawing charges if a case seems to be going badly, so that she can start over with a fresh jury?"

"That's today's topic. Double jeopardy." Alex managed a wry grin. "Let's avoid the puns about game shows, all right?"

Re: Sign In - JST06

[identity profile] not-jaded-yet.livejournal.com 2010-02-09 03:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Who is Jennifer Walters?

Re: Sign In - JST06

[identity profile] joan-notjane.livejournal.com 2010-02-09 03:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Who is Joan Girardi?

Re: OOC - JST06

[identity profile] joan-notjane.livejournal.com 2010-02-09 03:19 pm (UTC)(link)
If that happens, call me.

*hugs*

Re: During the Lecture - JST06

[identity profile] joan-notjane.livejournal.com 2010-02-09 03:20 pm (UTC)(link)
Joan was having a hard time concentrating today what with it being almost Valentine's Day and Andy talking about asking Raven to the dance on the radio and her being a teenage girl.
therewaslife: (→ | my lips are sealed)

Re: Sign In - JST06

[personal profile] therewaslife 2010-02-09 03:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Who is Nobody Owens?

Re: Discussion: Double Jeopardy - JST06

[identity profile] joan-notjane.livejournal.com 2010-02-09 03:22 pm (UTC)(link)
"If someone makes a full, public confession to a crime, they absolutely should be charged," Joan said. "Or, really, if any new evidence is found that casts the crime in a different light. With the technological advances we have, it's possible that five or ten years from now, we'll be able to discern evidence that we can't right now."

Re: Extra Credit: Hollywood is Dumb - JST06

[identity profile] joan-notjane.livejournal.com 2010-02-09 03:24 pm (UTC)(link)
If the courts found that the man wasn't really dead the first time, they would overturn her first sentence, thus leaving her clear to be charged a second time when the man was actually dead.

Joan decided to do the extra credit since she had missed class last week.

Re: Talk to Alex - JST06

[identity profile] joan-notjane.livejournal.com 2010-02-09 03:24 pm (UTC)(link)
"Ms. Cabot? I'm sorry about missing class last week," Joan said. "A friend of mine got hurt last Monday night and I was at the clinic with her all day Tuesday."
therewaslife: (→ | kinda thuggy)

Re: During the Lecture - JST06

[personal profile] therewaslife 2010-02-09 03:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Bod took a few notes but mostly listened, finding this whole system of law and order rather fascinating. Complex but fascinating. His home had been thankfully devoid of offenses like these (you couldn't very well kill a ghost and grave robbers were rare) so his practical knowledge in that area was lax.
therewaslife: (→ | thinking is a way of life)

Re: Discussion: Double Jeopardy - JST06

[personal profile] therewaslife 2010-02-09 03:36 pm (UTC)(link)
"In the situations you described, it doesn't sound fair," started Bod, turning the various questions over in his head. "If they're just retrying people because they messed up the first time, it's definitely not fair. I couldn't take an exam again because I got some questions wrong, could I?"

It wasn't the best comparison but it was the one he used and it did make sense in his mind.

"With the other factors, I think there'd have to be serious thought to charging him or her with something," he continued. "If a confession becomes public or new evidence comes to light, it's going to change the case and you wouldn't be arguing the same thing as you were the previous time. I wouldn't see the harm in charging the suspect with a lesser crime or a tangentially related crime just to get him into jail. Something is better than nothing, isn't it?"
therewaslife: (→ | look left)

Re: Discussion: Technicalities - JST06

[personal profile] therewaslife 2010-02-09 03:40 pm (UTC)(link)
"I'd say that yes, the man could be charged but if he was acquitted during his first trial and it was just an assault charge, it's probably going to be difficult to prove murder," said Bod. "Charging him would be an option but I'd hope the attorney arguing the case would have a better game plan than he or she did the first time they went to trial."
weetuskenraider: (Um - Rubbing Neck)

Re: Sign In - JST06

[personal profile] weetuskenraider 2010-02-09 03:51 pm (UTC)(link)
Who is Tahiri Veila? (That's actually a quite pertinent question for her these days, innit?)
weetuskenraider: (Thinking)

Re: During the Lecture - JST06

[personal profile] weetuskenraider 2010-02-09 03:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, it wasn't like Tahiri was ever going to assassinate a highly-respected admiral under orders from a Sith Lord, and then get dragged through a show trial two years later by the new and virulently anti-Jedi Head of State just to make a point or anything like that.

. . . no, really. At least, not this version of her. Which was almost a shame because it meant she wouldn't get to be a ballsy smartass at her arraignment.

So while she was listening carefully -- more carefully than she might have last week -- and taking careful notes, her interest was purely academic.

Re: Sign In - JST06

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2010-02-09 04:43 pm (UTC)(link)
Who is Dinah Lance?

Re: Extra Credit: Hollywood is Dumb - JST06

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2010-02-09 04:44 pm (UTC)(link)
She'd just get convicted of another murder, if no one believed that the schmuck was her supposedly-dead husband. And even if they did, they'd just send her right back to jail, not set her free.

Sometimes Hollywood was kind of amazing.

Re: Discussion: Double Jeopardy - JST06

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2010-02-09 04:47 pm (UTC)(link)
"Well, the civil trial that O.J. went through is a good precedent," Dinah said, thinking aloud. "I mean, he was acquitted of criminal charges, but civil trials are easier, so. He got sued by his wife's family. That's one recourse. No imprisonment, but a lot less money." She frowned, trying to think, then said, "Isn't there some time limit for bringing charges? Could they maybe bring a lesser charge, if it's still inside the time limit when new evidence comes up?"

Re: Sign In - JST06

[identity profile] ihaveniceteeth.livejournal.com 2010-02-09 04:47 pm (UTC)(link)
What is Gwen Cooper one of?

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