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Soc 310 and 500: Death and Dying / Soc of Deviance

Death and Dying

We will continue with our chapter on Homicide today.

Discussion: Excluding factors like a murderer's threat to society, what type of punishment do you believe is necessary for a homicide victim to receive justice? Or do the dead need justice at all?

Please read Chapter 204, entitled Loss of Control, from Clinical Methods for Monday.

Sociology of Deviance

Please take you seats. You will be quizzed today on your reading. [You can take the quiz cold, and then give me your (fabricated no doubt) IC results after you take a look at all the correct answers.]

Discussion will be based on Wednesday's intriguing research she shared in our last class.
Can a socially accepted group still be considered deviant? (Her example - Surburbanites) Please support your thoughts with examples.

For next class, please study this vocabulary. You'll find the format unique, but helpful with any luck.

--

"I will see many of you tomorrow at the Body Farm trip. Please remember to wear comfortable shoes and clothes that are easy to launder, and do not bring any food, drinks, etc. with you on the trip. I have a few gallons of lemon juice ready for students when we get back, we'll all have to hit the showers."

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Welcome to class.

Please hand in your quizzes so we can begin discussion.

Wednesday's quiz has a result of 80% and she is quite pleased with that score. She is looking forward to the discussion, but as it is based on her own research project, she doesn't feel that she should begin by responding to her own proposal.

Angelus hands in the quiz. As it required nothing more than being able to memorize the reading, he scored 100%.

"Of course they can," Angelus said in response to the discussion question. "Everyone's deviant to somebody else. It all depends on the perspective."

Once again Grissom has hit on a topic that sends Marty into a neurotic tailspin.

"Yeah... um... Isn't punishment for the uh... felon really for the victim's family and loved ones as well as society at large? I mean the victims are dead. Do they need closure? That's not to say that the uh... killer shouldn't walk free by society's judgement."

"Some believe that the victims... that their souls... need justice to move on to the afterlife properly, although I suppose it depends on what you believe. But then again, perhaps forgiveness is a more powerful force than even death."

"Good work on the quiz. Did you have any thoughts regarding what Angelus has to say? (http://www.livejournal.com/community/fandomhigh/210195.html?thread=9792787#t9792787)"

Yes, actually, I do.

"Everyone is deviant to someone else, yes. That wasn't the purpose of the question, however." Wednesday frowned at him. "The base question which concerns me is, can such a subgroup, one not only apparently widely and socially acceptable, still be considered a deviant subgroup in the context of the study of Sociology. This is a class related question, not a philosopical one."

No. Don't need justice, don't need anything. Already dead. Sometimes they need help going, but they all go over in the end.

[OOC: You're a stinker, but I love ya! Nothing like heaping a whole bunch of Angst on Marty.]

"Wouldn't they be though?" Angelus asked. "By definition these is a group which has chosen to live adjacent to the larger group of city-dwellers. If city dwelling is considered the baseline, then suburban living is deviant from that."

[OOC: Marty is pretty good at creating his own Angst, but the more you throw on him the more fun his mun has.]

Marty looks at Stark with a weird look.

"Dude. You're like freaking me out here."

Rogue takes the seat next to Marty, her hair down, wearing a green long sleeve shirt and matching scarf. Her gloves are black today.

She smiles sweetly up at the professor, then tries to think of an appropriate response. "The dead don't need justice. I agree with Marty. When you're dead, you're dead, and 'unresolved business' shouldn't keep you from the afterlife." She pauses, putting her finger to her mouth in a very good imitation of biting her nails. "But that doesn't mean the killer should walk free. He or she still poses a threat to society, in the form of fear. A community can be torn apart by an unsuccessful search for a killer."

She gives Marty an apologetic smile. "Um, of course there are always exceptions."

But it's true. All true.

sorry?

Grissom smiles, a bit flustered. "Fear is a very powerful thing, and can make us do a great many things. Or not do them, as the case may be." He pauses, shifting his glasses on his nose. "So you believe men, well... people, can atone for their sins?"

Rogue bites her lip, thinking. "Well, I should hope people can atone for their sins, because otherwise, I think we're all in trouble. One of the few things I agree with the Church on." She purses her lips. "Guilt is more than enough punishment sometimes."

Grissom gives Rogue's thoughts careful consideration. "It can certainly be a powerful form of punishment at any rate. But only if the person who commits the crime is fully aware of their actions and feels some sort of remorse for them, which is not always the case. But does that mean that punishments for crimes should take into consideration the criminal's feelings of guilt? And how does one measure it, if that is the case?"

I'm here, I'm here.

The dead don't need justice, but those of us they leave behind do.

Logan feels his 70% is excellent, seeing as he did very few of the required readings.

Belthazor hands in his quiz with a score of 80%.

"Thank you, Harry."

Ivanova is no longer in uniform, but looks neater than yesterday. "Uh, Dr. Grissom, I'm sorry about my absence for the last two weeks. I hope Zathras passed along the message that I was needed at home. Would I be able to take the quiz next class?"

Allie's mind immediately goes to Lilly when Dr. Grissom poses the question of whether the dead need justice.

She listens in shock as her classmates say they don't.

"I disagree, Dr. Grissom. I think the dead do need justice in order for their souls to move on peacefully.

"Your absence has been excused, but you will need to make up the quiz by next week please, and also pick a research topic (a deviant culture you'd like to study more in depth) as we will be dealing with those subjects off and on throughout the semester. Please submit that to me on Wednesday, or during Tuesday's Open Lab for all Sociology students. There is also a field trip to the Body Farm with the Science Dept. tomorrow you can sign up for (http://www.livejournal.com/community/fandomhigh/180991.html?thread=7256575#t7256575) if you'd like. Good to have you back, by the way."

"That's a valid viewpoint, but what makes you feel that way?"

"Different, but not necessarily deviant - unless you're sticking to a purely literal interpretation which, sadly, lacks." Wednesday shrugged.

Archie shakes his head. "I don't believe the dead are in any position to want or need justice; I agree with everyone who says that justice is a function that caters to those left behind. But yes, I do believe that some form of punishment is necessary in order for the living to have closure. As to where the line is drawn on what constitutes 'adequate' punishment, it's hard to say. But once you cross that line, the danger of falling into an unending cycle is all too real."

She sighs. "Sometimes guilt is misplaced. Sometimes, we feel guilty for things, things we shouldn't. Things we can't help, or that aren't our fault." She frowns. "I think they should take guilt into consideration, but I don't know how. Probably just the way they do: parole hearin's and the like."

*Dom circles the answers at random and turns the quiz in for a perfect score*

Allie blurts out a response without thinking.

"Because one of my roommates here was brutally murdered a couple years ago and she told me that she felt free after her killer was locked up!"

She stops and covers her mouth. She realizes that what she just said would have gotten her sent to counseling at her old school.

"That sounds like a strong basis for an argument. Thank you for sharing Allie, I appreciate the input." Grissom gives her a reassuring smile.

"All too true, thank you, Archie"

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Soc 310 and 500: Death and Dying / Soc of Deviance

Death and Dying

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